The purpose of these discussion threads is to get people talking about touhou characters but also stories that they have appeared in. In other words, it’s less about presenting a summary that can be found in a wiki page or profile and more about discussion with your peers here. You should[ ideally be engaging in back and forth about not only the characters but what other people have said. The barrier to entry is low and you don’t need to write a wall of text to participate! Just what you think and feel is good and interesting enough.

Below are few things that you might want to consider or talk about when it comes to a character. The intent isn’t just to cover the basics but also how these characters may fit into fiction and any interesting portrayals in stories.

- What the character is like: their personality, values, mindset, worldview, interests, and how they approach their existence, generally.
- How they fit into Gensokyo or Touhou: the relationships they might have, how they present themselves, how they interact with youkai or humans, and where they spend their time.
- The types of scenarios or situations that might be typical or interesting to see them in: it might be something that they don’t want to do and are forced to do regardless or it might be something routine, but it’s still something of an opportunity to see alluring aspects of them.
- The ways the characters have changed over time or in their appearances in canon or how depictions in stories on THP have maybe given you a better appreciation for them.
- Aspects of the characters that you think haven’t been explored properly or might be worth seeing in a story some time. Or different takes in stories, drawings, comics or other fanart that seem worth highlighting.

There’s much more that can be said and I’ll repeat that the general idea is to foster discussion. You can go on about your headcanon and all the cool ideas you may have on a character and post them—and it’s appreciated!—but it’d be nice if most of the time we’re not talking past one another but engaging and having a discussion. So make sure to check back and talk to other posters too!

As a final note, I’ve gone through the trouble of mostly automating the character selection process. It should randomly pick a character when I tell it to and it’s weighted to mostly avoid another character from the same game for the subsequent roll as well as any character that has been chosen in the last six months. If you think that the minimum time before a character should be eligible again should be increased, let me know, but I think it’s a reasonable gap.

The protagonist of the still ongoing manga, Lotus Eaters, Miyoi is a zashiki-warashi who works at the Geidontei pub in the human village. Adorned with her distinctive whale-shaped hat, she seems like an affable waitress and typically passes as human. Miyoi has possessed the Ibuki Gourd in order to be able to see the world beyond the pub. She is able to manipulate memories and cause recurring dreams in people who have imbibed alcohol and that has helped her keep her true nature hidden for the most part. Still, several persistent youkai have begun to regularly visit Geidontei at night for a drink.

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Who%27s_Who_of_Humans_%26_Youkai_in_Gensokyo/Miyoi_Okunoda

Most recent thread-meister here. Thanks for taking over. In all honesty, I had kind of resigned myself to leaving the thread dormant for a whole load of reasons that are off-topic to really get into here. Frankly, I felt as if I probably wouldn't participate even on the off-chance the thread were revived. Yet, here I am, willing to give it a try.

So, Miyoi. Perhaps it's befitting her whole 'thing' towards the start of Lotus Eaters, but I often forget about her. Even within that manga, she's not the biggest feature, a lot of the chapters focusing on Reimu, Marisa, Suika, Mamizou, Aya, or any number of characters besides Geidontei's poster girl. On one hand, it's a little unfortunate, but I suppose, on the other, it's hard to say much about fundamental aspects of her character without addressing the elephant in the room: her relationship with Suika. As I suppose some part of that is a Big Plot Point — inasmuch as Touhou manga have those — who knows how much of that we'll get until the sudden (likely rushed) Big Crisis at the end of the manga.

Personally, I kind of want to know more about Miyoi as a zashiki-warashi. It is, of course, her nominal 'type' of being, but what does it really mean as far as her existence, particularly in relation to others? Why does she want Geidontei's master to remain ignorant of her? Why did she, unlike so many of her kind, want to leave her home? Why does she fiddle with peoples' memories in the first place? Why does she give them nightmares? Is some of that part of the nature of a zashiki-warashi, or is she somehow special in that respect?

I don't have too many answers, myself, but maybe those sorts of things can spur discussion? Beyond that, all I can really say is: Miyoi a cute.

I think that Miyoi is uniquely positioned in terms of relationships and situations. She lives in the human village and her trade means that she’s always interacting with all sorts of people. Regular humans, goddesses in disguise, pushy youkai after dark … she’s the sort of nexus that I don’t think you otherwise see in Touhou (Reimu and Marisa also move between those worlds as well but aren’t really part of the fabric of society). As shown in the manga, Miyoi does hear a lot about rumors or otherwise is aware of situations that are going on in Gensokyo. Unlike the normal heroines, she’s not typically personally involved in solving the bigger issues but her role as a supporting character or a link between other characters who are doing things is something valuable in storytelling.

I don’t want to be too reductive but some of what >>17623 is asking can be explained by youkai and their nature. She is pleasant, generally, but has a mischievous or darker side, which I think keeps in line with the general way youkai tales are presented. Suika doesn’t seem surprised by Miyoi giving people nightmares and amusing herself and so it seems like a normal enough thing for a youkai to do to me. Zashiki-warashi are known for playing pranks and given that she’s not permanently hurting anyone it seems in line with what one might do given the chance. The explanation of her wanting to see the world is something that probably can also be taken at face value because it’s not like zashiki-warashi can just spent their time wandering about; even the remote work thing in the chapters with Okina doesn’t sever them from being bound to residences; Miyoi saw an opportunity in the oni gourd and took it.

The relationship with Suika, in particular, is interesting with me, and the license she gives to Miyoi (while taking advantage of the opportunity to find a drinking spot) with her gourd and abilities is an interesting angle. We’ll have to wait to see if it gets expanded upon (I won’t hold my breath) but it’s at least been interesting to see things like how the sake generation works, how Suika indulges Miyoi and how she’s built up a spot for her and other select youkai in the village.

Do wish Miyoi would pop up in more stories. She’s made brief appearances here and there but nothing too substantial. I’ve had some ideas for some of the stuff I’ve worked on but for one reason or another I’ve had to cut out her role or work on other stuff first. Still, there’s plenty of potential for a short stories involving her and her customers, youkai, Reimu et al, or whomever else. As Lotus Eater has shown she’s a useful vehicle to look into the various goings-on in Gensokyo.

And yeah, she's pretty cute.

>>17624
You know, it's funny, now that you mention it: Miyoi, a youkai, being arguably more part of the fabric of society in the village than Reimu or Marisa can claim to be. Given that the whole 'nobody remembering who she is' thing has fallen aside a bit, I wonder if she isn't a presence in the neighbourhood. She probably can't move far from Geidontei, but she's clearly able to go outside, so it's not outside the realm of possibility that she could interact with people outside of the bar. What would the neighbours say about her, I wonder?

>Miyoi saw an opportunity in the oni gourd and took it
Sure, but why? A zashiki-warashi is generally focused on her 'home', so what would make her turn outward? I don't suspect it's as simple as 'because she could'.

>As Lotus Eater has shown she’s a useful vehicle to look into the various goings-on in Gensokyo.
Riding a whale....

...I wonder if that whale motif is ever going to get any kind of explanation. How does a hikkikomori house goast know what a whale is?

I've not read Lotus Eaters yet so I can't speak too much about her, but I can say that I love her design.

>>17626
I know, right? I remember being a little iffy on it when they first revealed Lotus Eaters, but it grew on me quickly. Part of it might be a slight affinity with pink-haired characters, of course. Still, the skirt with the Ibuki Gourd-like motif is pretty sweet. And, obviously, the whale hat.

>>17626
I want to buy her hat. It's so... it's such a... hat.

Kind of a dumb thing, but it is an interesting thing to note that douji (what Miyoi is to Suika; see >>17316 for more) and warashi sort of share a meaning of 'child'. I don't think that in itself is indicative of anything, but it is an interesting coincidence.

I guess Miyoi is kind of child-like in many ways. As >>17624 notes, her nightmare shenanigans and such are more like pranks than anything. Plus, she just kind of comes across that way, y'know? I want to pinch her cheeks and pat her head.

As to her relationship with Suika, I didn't quite realise it until it was pointed out, but Suika does give Miyoi a lot of leeway in spite of the latter being technically a servant/follower. Really, she doesn't ask that much of Miyoi beyond use of Geidontei at night. Though it does beg the question of why she went and had the poor girl scared witless before springing that idea. Do the two of them know each other particularly well? I can't remember too clearly, but I remember getting the sense that Suika had only sort of noticed Miyoi and let her go on living in the gourd out of whimsy, but had otherwise maybe not gone out of her way to interact before?

Something I kind of wonder about with Miyoi and the whole zashiki-warashi thing is: what happens to her when the old man dies? There's no sense that the old man ever had a family, so it seems likely that Geidontei just sort of dies off after he's gone. Even though she can move off on the gourd, she does seem attached to the bar. It makes me wonder if she isn't thinking about a future where she moves homes, or if she would rather disappear with Geidontei.

I find there's a couple of question marks that emerge about Miyoi especially regarding her being a Zashiki-Warashi.

there is one of the chapters about the Zashiki-Warashi's disappearing from the village (again) but Miyoi wasn't one of them, and in fact she did not know about where they went at all? why was she excluded from Okina's remote work scheme?

Also she is markedly different from the other Zashiki-warashi since they are pretty much all much smaller than her. I don't know if it is explicitly said in the manga's themselves or elsewhere in touhou and thus can't confirm if this is actually canon, but the touhou wiki describes them as "Child-like"... which Miyoi isn't.

I do enjoy the Lotus Eater manga, especially how Miyoi kinda acts for her regular night customers (Suika, Aya, and Mamizou) in a similar manner to how Kosuzu did for Reimu and Marisa in her own manga. even if they all have to strut their scary reputations before inviting themselves into her night shift. (which gives us her various scared faces so... at least we get some amusement from it! XD)

>>17625
>I wonder if she isn't a presence in the neighbourhood
We see her talking to random humans outside Geitondei in some panels. An example off the top of my head when it was raining and she was trying to get them to leave the village (and was ultimately ignored). Given the very large and lively village depicted in LE (and to a lesser extent, FS), I don't think that random people really think much about her as they go one with their lives—she's just another villager to them. To her immediate neighbors maybe she's just the cheery granddaughter of Geidontei's master.

> How does a hikkikomori house goast know what a whale is?
Could be something as banal as the master read about them one time and thought they were neat and ordered a sign made with one. Miyoi has simply copied that motif.

>A zashiki-warashi is generally focused on her 'home', so what would make her turn outward?
I feel like this can be bundled with what >>17630 brings up. The other zashiki-warashi didn't necessarily want to stay in their same old environment either, hence the "remote work". They all, voluntarily, decided to go away from their homes and to stay elsewhere. Having the Ibuiki gourd, Miyoi had an outlet that wasn't available to her peers.

>>17629
>douji and warashi
They have a laugh about that early on in the manga, when Suika starts dropping in at nights.

I don't think they have much of a relationship prior and Suika generally comes off to me as whimsical and fairly kind-hearted while playing up the oni aspect of herself when it's convenient (like to banter with Mamizou or Aya, or save Reimu from being a dummy and giving her visitors food poisoning). I'm not sure how much time had passed between Miyoi inhabiting the gourd and the beginning of the manga, but I got the impression it had been a very recent development; Suika's first interaction with Miyoi is as a patron when she's undercover as a human. I'm assuming that they are getting to know each other better as the time passes, with Suika (and others) often sharing with her knowledge about drinks and practices. The closest thing we've gotten to more serious "plot" was when the taoists popped up and the relationship between Miyoi/the Ibuiki gourd/Suika became important again. So it's maybe their relationship isn't just about having a drinking spot in the village but one of mutual utility.

It's hard to speculate what Miyoi's long-term plans are. My take is that she's helping out the bar because it's fun. She's very much a people person and takes clear satisfaction from cooking properly, serving new drinks, and otherwise pleasing the customers. So, if the old man dies ... maybe she'd try to keep running things herself? She's probably get support from her (now) acquaintances, both human and youkai. The point is made that zashiki-warashi need to move, yes, but that chapter is also called "Change is the Way of Youkai" and I think that the events of LE, generally, show how resourceful youkai can be in finding new ways to thrive.

>>17630
They're basically children in most traditional depictions (some theories of their origin say that they're an outgrowth of the high child mortality that happened during years of famine). But I wouldn't read too much into their appearance in Touhou as artists and their assistants have a lot of latitude in depicting what to draw and how to draw it (ZUN is more involved in the general story and dialogue) . They're consistent with their depiction in WaHH more than anything and I think that Miyoi's marked differences with them has more to do with practical concern with making her character visually stand out. I'm not sure if LE tankobon have been released yet but, if they're anything like FS' releases, they may have a little extra bit of stuff from ZUN and/or the artist where they talk about stuff like that. Of course, you're free to disagree and speculate otherwise but I haven't seen anything else in the manga that sets up some sort of large reveal about Miyoi (unlike the obvious stuff in WaHH).

>>17631
>I don't think that random people really think much about her as they go one with their lives—she's just another villager to them. To her immediate neighbors maybe she's just the cheery granddaughter of Geidontei's master.
Hmm, a very incognito Miyoi, huh? Makes me wonder what she could possibly see that others can't if she could blend in that well. Maybe there's no need for a monke detective...

>They all, voluntarily, decided to go away from their homes and to stay elsewhere.
That chapter felt poorly-done in terms of conveying why they'd done anything; it ended up feeling a bit like they'd just run off "just because lol". See also: Miyoi's lack of relevance through much of it despite it being about zashiki-warashi.

>I got the impression it had been a very recent development
Same, and I kind of wish there was more indication as to how recently. Then again, ambiguity is grounds for people to explore. I'd read something with Suika and Miyoi becoming better friends or whatever as long as it's cozy.

>>17630
She's pretty child-like personality-wise.

>>17632
>She's pretty child-like personality-wise.

I'm not too sure I agree mostly off of her being a... waitress isn't the right word I'm pretty sure, but still.

on a different not further on the question of her being a Zashiki-Warashi aside from what I ahve already mentioned, it is interesting that despite her constant corrections on the subject that most people that talk to her long enough to take a guess at what she is, most, if not all do not peg her as a Zashiki-Warashi, but rather something else. though that might be tied to her personal power over dreams.

something else that occours to me is that from the first couple of chapters it seems that they were implying that Miyoi has in fact been present at quite a few of the after incident parties at the Hakurei Shrine (they remember her after some reminder in chapter 1) meaning that she could have been going for a long while and just recent circumstances are... weakening(?) her ability to make others forget (Reimu seems to consistently remember her at this point, and Marisa is getting there herself.) it perhaps helps that they now have knowledge about her from a source aside from just directly interacting with her.

>>17623
>who knows how much of that we'll get until the sudden (likely rushed) Big Crisis at the end of the manga.

I think this big crisis might not end up being as rushed as it might seem right now. there seems to be some sort of set up going on hinting at a possible confrontation by the Taoists after Miyoi left behind a Geidontei bowl after rescuing Suika from them.

though I do get the feeling that that confrontation might be happening soon.

I think it's pretty safe to say that Miyoi is just pretending to be a Zashiki-Warashi, or at the very least only fits into the definition on a very technical basis. More likely than not she's some sort of Alp which falls in line with how Remilia thought hobgoblins would be a good replacement for the zashiki.

Thinking about pink-haired characters makes me wonder what would happen if Miyoi encountered Kasen. Given both her connection to the resident Japanese goblin and her frequent dealings with Reimu, it'd be a little weird if they didn't cross paths. I bet it'd be pretty tense, especially with how Kasen generally likes to avoid Suika. Then again, maybe Geidontei's poster girl's sunniness and simplistic diligence could win over a horny hermit.

>>17634
I don't think it's safe to say that at all. There may well be other things going on with her but she does seem to be unambiguously a zashiki-warashi. Otherwise she would not need Suika's gourd to wander around (and hadn't before), nor would she have been worried about Suika disappearing with the gourd in the chapters where the latter is underground dealing with the aftermath of Yuuma. Yuugi taking her in for a while saved her from disappearing.

>>17636
Oh shit, I forgot about the big drunk underground bear letting her crash at her pad.

Can you imagine a story with Miyoi being roomies with Yuugi? Miyoi would try to be the voice of reason, but she's just too adorable (and bulliable) to take seriously. Suika would be watching the chaos from afar and laughing her ass off, occasionally drifting in and out like an absentee dad when she wants to stir up some shit.

>>17635

its rather interesting how the main characters of the characters introduced in the mangas don't really interact with each other much, if at all ( the three fairies seem to be the exception.) this especially noticeable between Miyoi and the other village resident manga protagonist Kosuzu. especially considering LE ch. 49&50 which Kosuzu could have solved pretty instantly.

I find there are a lot of interesting comparisons between the two, both live in the village, but Miyoi bring a comparative Youkai perspective to contrast to Kosuzu's Human one.

>>17638
Compared to the book-lender, Miyoi's less of a dummy and doesn't have to be bailed out as much for getting herself in trouble. She's more of a victim of others causing trouble that she has no real hand in beyond maybe guilt by association (e.g., being a youkai). And very often, she's not even affected much by things going on beyond being a distant witness at most.

>>17638
Funnily enough, the perspective we get with Miyoi feels more human to me than Kosuzu's. Maybe it's because of the other characters, including the human regulars, but Kosuzu seemed like she's more in her own isolated world and has very little sense of what's normal in the day-to-day. That Kosuzu draws the wrong conclusions from reading stuff like magazines doesn't help things either.

The youkai perspective in LE kind of comes through more from the other youkai characters like Mamizou, Aya, and Suika than Miyoi herself.

>spoiler text
If you mean the postmarks, not sure that she'd be able to know what they were since they're not really writing or a book as such.

>>17640
That makes me wonder what would come of Miyoi reading the same sorts of things. Would she rationalise it as 2deep4her and drop it? Would she try to make sense of it in some quaintly ordinary way? I guess she might come to weird conclusions herself, but perhaps ones less likely to lead to some sort of disastrous action on her part.

But, well, I guess it makes sense that a zashiki-warashi might have a slightly more 'human' perspective, considering they're in an almost symbiotic relationship with them. Even youkai like the ones named, who are reasonably friendly with humans, can only mostly see things from the perspective of how they benefit from humans.

>>17639
heck at this point Miyoi has managed to get someone else (namely Suika) out of trouble herself!
and the main time she was really in trouble that I recall, the association was of the other Geidontei night patrons (because Yukari felt left out XP ...oh boy what sort of face do you think Miyoi would make if Yukari showed up one night? probably a similar one to what she would make if she learned the naggy patron she gave nightmares to was Kanako)

>>17640
Kosuzu's ability is to be able to understand any writing she reads and so while she might lack context she'd be able to tell the writings were taking inventory of the food storage inside rather than any sort of curse for Reimu to cleanse or whatnot. Granted since it was Mamizou that was behind it leads to the headcanon I have to fill in that plothole, but this is Miyoi's discussion and not Kosuzu's. and as for whether her powers would apply in that instance, well, it worked for the fox kid's wall doodlings, so it should work there too?

>>17643
>if she learned the naggy patron she gave nightmares to was Kanako
Maybe an initial shock followed by still feeling justified, I'd think. Kanako was extremely insulting, god or no.

>if Yukari showed up one night
Not sure she even knows who Yukari is unless Suika's told her. It's hard to say if she has that much of a perspective of things that far above her pay-grade, either. If they act relatively normal, I think Miyoi would probably treat anybody the same, youkai sage, god, human, or otherwise.

Actually, somebody remind me, did Kanako return to Geidontei after that? Kanako being a humbled regular at Geidontei would make for... dunno about a good story premise, but it would maybe fit into a story somewhere, I guess.

Kind of unfortunate that the cool fashionable onee-san Kanako was just a vehicle for ZUN having an old man rant about sake production and the overemphasis on 'purity' in modern brewing. We'll probably never get any more.

>>17644

the end of ch.15 mentions (and shows) that Kanako does still show up in her disguise "from time to time" though she still very opinionated during those times according to Miyoi

Vampire, resident of the Scarlet Devil Mansion, and younger sister of Remilia. Flandre isn't typically seen in public or at the many drinking parties in Gensokyo—unlike her sister—and spends most of her days inside her home. With her blonde hair, more brash attitude, and strange bejeweled wings, she does not attempt to put on the same air of refinement and sophistication that her elder sister does. Flandre is capable of immense destructive power and a few interesting spellcards, such as cloning herself. First appearing as the Extra Stage boss in Embodiment of the Scarlet Devil, she has since made mostly minor appearances in other games and print works, and finally debuted as a playable character in Sunken Fossil World.

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Who%27s_Who_of_Humans_%26_Youkai_in_Gensokyo/Remilia_and_Flandre_Scarlet
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Flandre_Scarlet
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Bohemian_Archive_in_Japanese_Red/Flandre

Since nobody wants to start, might as well with something. Maybe people are afraid of her?

I used to hate her but I've grown to like the character a little more with th17.5 onwards, where I think she has a very cool movesets (well, most movesets are great there but still). Let's say I learnt to tolerate her. I still think she's overrated, though, and having her as a fave 2hu is probably a red flag.

I never understood the crystals on her wings, or the "wings" themselves.
Are those real? Prosthetics? Are the crystals necessary or are they for decoration?

I like to think the crystals are supposed to tinkle like a windchime.
Design-wise, the wings make zero sense but those plus Laevateinn gives you possible one of the most recognizable silhouettes ever.

That's it for now. Maybe I'll make a follow up, who knows.

I don't care for Flandre on the whole, but I'd say she's also had little chance thus far. In my mind, she was barely a character until her most recent appearances. Like, we didn't know that much about her beyond fairly basic things. Now we have a slightly more sketched out picture of her personality, though I feel like the second artist for Detective Monke ignored much of the first half's nuance.

I haven't seen any particularly moving portrayals of her on THP. Even in Scarlet Tycoon, which I helped work on, I always felt a little unsatisfied with how she was depicted in the couple of brief appearances she got, always leaning a little too far into 'moonbat bipolar loli' territory. I was entertained somewhat by her one canon appearance in Theater of Youth, but that was more for the comedy of having a swipe at Flan fans than anything particularly serious; Arc was certainly not going to go out of his way to see her again, I felt.

Setting aside my own biases against SDM characters, if I were to include Flan in a story nowadays, I think I'd try to get away from the whole 'caged animal' sort of character that's been typical for a while. Perhaps she has her own particular view of things, but I don't think that necessarily makes her psychotic or mentally disturbed. Beyond that... I'd have to think on it.

>>17647
I don't get the wings, either. I guess they could be an illusion? Maybe the crystals aren't really part of them and they're like accessories. If they really are her wings, then I have no clue beyond maybe them being some kind of... magical prosthesis?

I guess I like to think of them as something Flan herself thinks is cool and impressive. Others look at them and are probably as baffled as any of us.

In the limited early canon appearances of Flandre, she came off to me as irreverent and the kind of character that just did whatever they wanted when they wanted. I’ve never really thought much of her as a character and the usual depictions in fiction tended to portray her as mentally unstable, childish or, in some more uncharitable circumstances, a nymphet—takes that did nothing for me. In the Satori manga she’s shown to be more nuanced, staying in her own little world but also running roughshod over everyone else when the opportunity arose. Still, a little naive and not really prone to thinking about things carefully. (Her as a convoluted plot device after the artist swap and the ensuing “top 10 epic anime confrontations” chapters is a regrettable development and doesn’t really do much for the character. It perhaps only pleases the easily impressed who don’t care for substance. But I digress.)

I think that an interesting approach to depicting her might involve exploring her relationship with her sister as it’s clear that they don’t see eye to eye on things. The question of how she keeps busy year-on-year also is another opening, I think. She’s in that sparse and windowless room of hers because she wants to be but how does she occupy her time? Can't be playing with toys all the time for. Read? If so, what kind of books? Tales of knights and princesses? I-novels featuring middle-aged authors in Taisho-era Japan? Does she also share her sister’s western sensibilities or clear preference for that aesthetic? Is that indicative of their origin or just a coincidence? The possibilities are many and I don’t think most of the stories I’ve seen her in deal with her voluntary isolation and what may lead her to be a recluse so unlike her gregarious sister.

Maybe she’s doomed to remain a scary creature that most people avoid, content to ripping them apart if the opportunity arises. That would be a shame, I think. But it’s hard to get past the very large baggage of early modern Touhou and the way that the SDM was fêted and featured prominently in both official works and in fandom.

>>17647
I don't want to read too much into depictions in manga as those can be just a matter of artist's preferences and lack of time for detail but the crystals seem to just magically float beneath her wings with no clear attachment. Perhaps fancy ornamentation she's chosen for herself.

I've been writing a little bit about Flandre lately, so I've had to do some thinking into her character as well. My read on her is that she enjoys a good fight and opportunity to flex her powers, especially the eye-crushing destruction thing.

Each time we see her out of the house, it's usually for the explicit purpose of a fight (EoSD vs Reimu/Marisa, SFW vs Yuuma) or otherwise to flex her powers (destroying the meteor in BaiJR, showing up for the festival in GoU). Of course, a one-hit kill ends most fights pretty quickly, so she can't use her signature ability on most enemies. When she had the chance to fight Yuuma, who could survive being destroyed, she seemed pretty happy to get the chance to do that over and over again.

It's got to be almost impossible to stop her from doing what she wants. As she says, "It's impossible to lock me up." That does seem to influence her attitude, and how casual she is with everyone. Hard to fear anything when you have that in your back pocket.

I'll admit to having struggled with her a bit. She's not quite a meathead, but she's definitely a much more blunt character than her sister. She's also been much less prominent until 17.5 and FDS.

>>17650
>Maybe she’s doomed to remain a scary creature that most people avoid, content to ripping them apart if the opportunity arises.
Even canon seems to like positioning her that way; at the very least, she's always kind of a boogeyman that makes people nervous.

That said, I agree that her relationship with Remilia is something that's not very often commented on, much less explored to any real degree. From what little I recall, the consensus tends to land on them largely not interacting at all, with Remilia doing everything she can to avoid it. Given all else, I wouldn't blame Remilia for not wanting to have much to do with her sister. I feel like, even if she's not restrained as such, there's still a strongly unspoken sense in the SDM that Flandre should be encouraged to stay put as much as possible.

I think what makes it difficult to say a lot is not having much of a sense of the history of the Scarlets and their estate. We don't know a lot about what they may have gone through together, much less separately. Hell, we don't even know much about their origins. When I helped write Scarlet Tycoon, we made up a whole bunch of background for Remilia et al., but that's ultimately all it was: a fabrication for that story.

But, erm, as to Flandre herself, I do also wonder what she does to pass the time. Something that was brought up in Scarlet Tycoon was the possibility of her painting, and whilst it doesn't seem 'likely' — inasmuch as anything can be likely with 2hus — it would be interesting if she had something of an artistic streak. Given that she's more of a recluse, it'd make sense that she'd mostly do things that can be done alone and that take a lot of time and effort. Maybe she crawls around Patchouli's library and helps herself to books, reading up on the wide world she mostly doesn't step into. There is that certain naïvite to her character that makes me think she would probably be a little bit inquisitive about all sorts of things.

>But it’s hard to get past the very large baggage of early modern Touhou and the way that the SDM was fêted and featured prominently in both official works and in fandom.
Pretty big part of why I don't touch on them, myself; they've already got a lot of attention that other casts haven't, even if most of has a history of being quite shallow.

>>17651
>Each time we see her out of the house, it's usually for the explicit purpose of a fight
>It's got to be almost impossible to stop her from doing what she wants
>EoSD vs Reimu/Marisa
Well, in that case, she was actually confined to the SDM by Patchouli making it constantly rain, keeping her penned in by an aversion to running water.

Speaking of which, I don't think there's been much comment one way or another about her fearing the sun as much as her sister. I wonder about that. I mean, it'd be funny if that were more of a 'Remilia' thing than an innate 'weakness' to both of them.

>>17652
>I don't think there's been much comment one way or another about her fearing the sun as much as her sister.
Image from after the fighting at Myourenji.

>Maybe she crawls around Patchouli's library and helps herself to book
Maybe the fairy maids bring novels to her. Still raises the question of who curates the books and what her tastes are like.

>>17653
>second half of Detective Monke
into the trash it goes

>Maybe the fairy maids bring novels to her
Dunno, probably hard or even impossible to strong-arm them into doing anything that involves the other ojou-sama. Unless they don't know anything about it, but that seems unlikely since they probably talk.

>what her tastes are like
The Count of Monte Cristo by Dumas? Who doesn't love a tale of adventure and cold-hearted revenge?

>>17654
Outright stated that they bring her trays of food and other things for her. Disliking a manga does not make it any less relevant.

>>17656
It's another detail from FDS. Discarding canon because you don't like it and taking a weird high ground and tone policing certainly doesn't add anything to the conversation. Do better.

Flandre's hard to say a lot about because she's largely isolated in her sister's mansion, and in the couple of times she's out of the mansion, it's viewed as a major event. We also don't get much of a view of her in more ordinary circumstances, so we don't have much clue what she's like when not in a combative state or gleefully strangling gatekeepers.

With how she's treated as being 'a bit strange', a shut-in, and a little naïve, I'd think she might be a bit of a gloomy child normally, maybe not having that much to say to anyone, a bit lost in her own world. It's likely nobody can tell very well what she's thinking, so they probably don't interact more than strictly necessary, unsure if anything they do or say might not provoke some fit of temper. Other maids aside, Sakuya might be the only one who has any significant degree of interactions with her, and that doesn't strike me as likely more than maybe the odd bit of empty chatter or question from Flandre's end, not going out of her way to encourage or discourage the younger sister, just maintaining a careful distance. Remilia may or may not have tried to have something of normal relationship with her sister at some point, but I feel like she's probably given up on that since, preferring to live out her life as if she's simply not there, occasionally reminded by some spot of bother, or maybe even the odd drop-in by Flandre, an occasion she probably greets with a forced smile, empty pleasantries, and cold sweat. I think Patchouli might be the one who would meet Flandre with the most open sense of disinterest, treating her like a pestering child, doing whatever she can to get rid of her as soon as possible, never really fearing her beyond what sorts of repercussions a full-on tantrum might have on the library, figuring she can use magic to keep her at bay otherwise, or pull someone else in to pacify her in a worst case scenario.

As far as Okina, I don't think they're likely to have much to do with each other after all is said and done. That seems like an arrangement of convenience and not much more.

>>17648

I thought Scarlet Tycoon Flandre was written well. Clearly dealing with her personal demons while still making an honest effort to be a functioning member of society. Maybe if that story got a few more threads it would have turned her into a Flandre this site could be proud of.

>>17660
Eh, sorry, but I'm gonna beg to differ. She was basically just girlrotting in Remilia's not-dungeon. The overall course of things was, well, the events of EoSD's extra stage, unintentionally caused by her dear sister's attempts at keeping an eye on her, stoking a growing agitation in the back of her mind at a lack of novelty in the confines of the mansion. Afterwards? Who knows.

The main writer was (obviously) much more focused on Remilia as a whole, and the inclusion of Flandre at all was more of an incidental bit of pathos than anything. Flandre could have factored into some exploration of the Scarlet sisters' background at some point, but that's already wading out into theoretical waters. I'm not saying she couldn't have shown up again, have been of actual consequence, and maybe even demonstrated the sorts of character traits ascribed. It's just, having an inside view, I don't feel it was likely she would be more than a momentary Sword of Damocles for Remilia.

>>17661

Well, mental health in fiction is a rather delicate subject. Even our ongoing stories like Green Eyes Online and Hakurō seem to have characters dealing with issues that deserve much more than the casually dismissive lip-service that fantasy-type settings typically pay to these kinds of things.

And, in a broader sense, I've never encountered a fantasy story that handles this topic particularly well. Perhaps hoping for a good Flandre story is simply asking too much.

>>17662
I wouldn't dismiss it as categorically impossible, but I have no idea what such a thing would look like. There's a lot of blanks that have to be filled in just to create context for her to do anything, and then there's the fact that her inner life is generally a mystery.

As to mental health as a topic, I think pathologising Flandre is kind of whatever. It's fine if she's just a weird kid, imo. In fact, I'd find it kind of refreshing if that was how she was treated in a story. People can make her 'crazy' if they want, but I can do without being hammered over the head with it.

Komachi is a shinigami who works as a ferrywoman on the river Sanzu, transporting the souls of the departed across to the other bank, where they await their turn to be judged by the Yama. She is a convivial character who enjoys a nice chat and will sometimes slack off from her duties. With that said, she is still shows concern about issues relating to ghosts, spirits, and the afterlife and is known to appear in Gensokyo to investigate unusual events or situations. Komachi has appeared in several games as well as official print works, being playable in Phantasmagoria of a Flower View and Scarlet Weather Rhapsody and appearing regularly in Wild and Horned Hermit where she and Kasen would chat about—among other things—ongoing events and problems.

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Who%27s_Who_of_Humans_%26_Youkai_in_Gensokyo/Komachi_Onozuka
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Komachi_Onozuka

I like Komachi quite a bit. She’s affable, easy-going, and her design is appealing. She appears a lot in the manga and seems to get along with most people that she meets. Add to that she knows a lot about the dead and humans and you’ve got yourself a character that should be easy to use in many different types of stories.

Sadly, that’s not really how things have worked out and there’s a dearth of good Komachi material out there.

I would like to know more about the ministry of right and wrong, generally, and her perspective might be interesting to see but stuff like her appearing in the village to find a wayward soul like in LE is a good enough hook for me. She probably spends most of her time at the Sanzu or Higan but she doesn’t seem to be restricted to where she might go within Gensokyo proper. Sure, a lot of the obvious stuff involving her might involve death in some capacity but I could definitely see her popping in for a drink and a snack in the village or building up a relationship with someone because they’re a good talker or are otherwise interesting. That’s more or less the case with Kasen, anyhow.

I’m not sure she has anything more than a professional/hierarchical relationship with Eiki. Eiki most likely doesn’t really approve of her initiatives beyond PoFV but I think that there’s usually not that much work to be done anyhow, seeing as Gensokyo is a fairly small place with few people that would die and need to cross the river every day. But maybe there’s something in exploring how Komachi might relate with other shinigami, perhaps the type that actually do hunt hermits?

All of this is off the top of my head, maybe I’ll have more to say later.

One has to wonder how necessary Komachi's job is. With the increasing amount of technology in Gensokyo, could Komachi not be replaced by a single steam boat? Even if she regularly uses her distance powers to cross the Sanzu river, that means the distance across the river is some tangible, objective measurement and not some metaphysical bullshit that requires her actual presence.

Pretty sure the whole 'pay literally all your spirit money just to cross a river' is a ploy by Big Shikigami to unfairly tax the marginalized, underrepresented spirit community.